Transcript:

Scott Berry 

Welcome to Immigration Nation, the podcast that dives deep into the complex and often misunderstood world of United States immigration. Through interviews with leading US immigration Attorneys, this podcast aims to provide a comprehensive overview of the policies, struggles and victories within the ever changing world of immigration. Each episode will offer fresh perspectives and valuable insight using real life stories to navigate our nation’s immigration system. If you have an immigration question or an existing case, join us here on immigration nation because this podcast was made for you. 

Garry Davis 

Hello, I’m Garry Davis. I’m a board certified immigration lawyer. I’m a founder of Davis and Associates. We do just immigration law and our offices are in Houston and Dallas, TX. But we have clients all over the world. I’ve been practicing for 23 years and. Exclusively immigration law and that’s what I am. It’s who I am. It’s what I. Love. To do and and so I’m really glad to be here today. 

Scott Berry 

And I’m Scott Barry. I’m one of your hosts for Immigration nation, and we’re very excited today. Anytime that we get Garry Davis in the podcast studio, we are thrilled to pick his brain and to teach you things that will help make your immigration journey more smooth and more successful. So today we’re going to talk about consultations. So if you think you might need an immigration attorney, one of the very first steps is to reach out to 1 and ask for a consultation. Now, what does that mean? What does it look like? What do I bring? How much does it cost? There’s just a lot that goes into that, and we’ve got someone here that has performed 10s of thousands of consultations and even though he has one of the premier immigration law firms in the nation, he’s still doing consultations. Himself every single week. Join us for a great conversation with Garry Davis today. 

Speaker 

So. 

Scott Berry 

Hello, I’m Scott Barry. I’m your host today with Immigration nation and we have a very special guest with us. Mr. Garry Davis, Board certified attorney for immigration law. Hello, Garry. Hi. 

Garry Davis 

To be here. 

Scott Berry 

So we’re going to talk today about consultations. So when someone thinks I don’t know, this could be too complicated. I think I maybe need to talk to an attorney. I don’t know if I need to hire 1 yet, but I definitely need to talk to an. Bernie, they will give you a call and ask for a consultation, right? It’s kind of a common thing across the US with all immigration attorneys. Sure. Right. That’s right. So when people do that, what generally happens in a consultation? What? Why are they calling and what do they want to talk about? 

Garry Davis 

Well, I mean, they probably have a question about immigration law and typically it’s related to options. So it’s either going to be, you know, I I would like to come to the US or I have a family member that would like to come to the US what are my options? I’m here in the US on this visa. I’d like to do something different while I’m here. Are there ways to do that? Or something changes in their family situation. I’ve recently married. What are my options for, you know, becoming permanent here? Or a U.S. citizen may come in and say, you know, I was outside the US visiting family and met somebody and fell in love with my options to bring that person here. Or as an employer that says look, my business is growing, I’m having a hard time finding people. What are my options to bring in foreign labor when I can’t find people here that are able to work? You know those kinds of things are the kinds of discussions that we have. In consultation. Hey, why don’t people? 

Scott Berry 

Just Google it. 

Garry Davis 

I mean, you can, but you may have a hard time getting really good information. Most of what you find on Google when it comes to immigration is either going to be politically motivated or frankly, marketing motivated, right? Yeah. So it’s not necessarily information motivated. The closest you get to finding information is by going to the government’s website, but the problem is what people don’t realize is the government in terms of immigration process is so fraud. Commented. Like we could have one case and be involved with the Department of Justice, the Department of Labor, the Department of Homeland Security, multiple agencies within the Department of Homeland Security, including USCIS Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE Customs and Border Protection, which is the border. Patrol. Guys, plus you’ve got the US consulate. After all, in the Department of State, so we could literally have one case that covers 4 different agencies. So it’s not really possible. The more complex the scenario. To get to go to 1 government source, which again is basically the closest we have to reliability on the information and leaving out all other interests other than just providing information. Because there’s so many different. Options and pathways forget about funding. It’s just really, really challenging, but it’s why guys like me have a job, right? Because the stuff becomes so complex at a certain point as the bureaucracy continues to grow, that to navigate it, you need people like us to, to. 

Scott Berry 

Help them that do it every day. 

Garry Davis 

Exactly right. Well, because it changes all the time. That’s the other side of it is immigration. Unlike many other areas, maybe tax would be close or or even. More, but I mean outside of like tax and immigration, I don’t know that there’s any other area of law that changes so rapidly, so quickly. Policy changes from the administration, court cases. 

Scott Berry 

You don’t always. 

Garry Davis 

That come out. 

Scott Berry 

That affects it. You can’t. It’s just out of the blue. Yeah, just an announcement that something’s been extended or something has been done differently. 

Garry Davis 

Exactly or or when, like President Obama put in the deferred action program back in 2012, I was literally about to leave for vacation. I had to cancel my vacation because I had to let my, you know, my network, know my clients and other people know that this new thing has just happened out of the blue for us. And now there’s this huge option, an opportunity for people to take advantage of a new program or a new process, or or now we need medical exams that have this thing in it or medical exam now has. Changed. Immigration lawyers have to keep up with this stuff on a regular basis to be able to. Pivot and to help there have any pivot whenever there’s those kinds of changes that come all the time from the. 

Scott Berry 

Flying home. So when someone wants a consultation anywhere in the United States, there could be any city, any state, right? 

Garry Davis 

Or even the world for that. 

Scott Berry 

Matter. But yeah, they when they call to set it up or are they free or are they 100 bucks, 300 a thousand. What? What? What should they expect to fund? 

Garry Davis 

It just depends on the firm. Everybody has a different thought on this. To be honest. There’s no consistency, there’s no standard. I would say that most of the time consultations are going to have some fee. Because. You know, people want to hear what they want to hear and when they don’t hear what they want to hear from the first person they talk to. If they know somebody’s doing a free consultation, they’ll go talk to that person, right? Just to see if maybe this guy’s got a different idea, right? Because they know how complex it is. And so generally it’s going to be a fee. But. Not always. And you know, it just depends on the firm and how they operate, what their goals are. But to be fair, by and large, immigration lawyers generally will charge some kind of a fee for a constitution. 

Scott Berry 

I mean, most people know attorneys don’t work. 

Garry Davis 

For free? That’s right. We’re trading our time and our knowledge. Right. And and so there’s value to that. The what? 

Scott Berry 

A consultation in general, what would that look like? Like? What’s the process? What happens at the beginning? What happens at the end? 

Garry Davis 

Sure. Well, I mean, there’s got to be kind of an intake process that happens so that. We. Understand what the issue is so that we can try to tailor our advice to fit into that scenario, whatever it is, and there’s different ways that different firms do it to collect that information. Some people have, like a questionnaire you fill out online. Other people have like an intake person, a specialist or administrator that will call in advance to gather that information. Sometimes it’s just sitting with the attorney. The attorney asks all the questions you come in and a paralegal sits with you to get all that info. Information we got to get the information 1st and then it’s the attorney’s job to basically break down that scenario to then help that person that’s consulting with them, understand. If it’s a good consultation, it’s going to be help you understand what your options are, help you understand the pros, cons, you know costs process for each for those option and then why we would recommend one over the other. 

Scott Berry 

Each. 

Garry Davis 

And then if you know the most important one, I think is that if it turns out that someone really doesn’t have an option. A good consultation is going to end with an explanation about why. So frequently people are told, look, you don’t have any options. Get out of my office and I think that’s a miss because I think they have a right because they took their time to come into the attorney’s office. They have a right to understand why it is. What is it about their situation or the law that makes it so that they don’t have. An option and it it it is just being a good person, not just being a good lawyer, but being a good person to share that information with them so that they understand. And frequently when I’ve got somebody that comes in clearly desperate for an option and I give them the bad news that there isn’t an option which happens sometimes. I will literally go print out the statute, the law that makes it so I’ll highlight it for them. I teach it to them. This is what it says. This is how it applies. This is why you fit in. And then I also encourage them because I know they’re desperate for an option. When you go see the next guy who’s not going to be honest with you, make sure that you show them this law and ask them how they’re going to. Get past that, you know. Make them address and make them address it, because that way you know that they’re aware that. You’ve. Got the issue and if they have a good answer for you and you’re comfortable with it, OK. But I mean, the truth is, it’s probably not and I don’t want people to get taken advantage. 

Scott Berry 

Of so. So you brought up a really interesting point is. They’re going to be cases where an attorney says to a legal consumer. I can’t help you. That’s right. I you can’t hire. Hi. 

Speaker 

Right. 

Garry Davis 

But then the follow up question needs. To. Be why? OK, the person has a right. I think as as some of that’s coming to that office spent their time or their money. Or. Both to come into the office and have a conversation, they need to be able to understand by the time they leave. Why it is that that’s the answer. Not just that, that’s the answer. It’s not good enough. They need to know why. 

Scott Berry 

So. Professional courtesy. Yeah, right. But not everybody. They don’t all do them the same, right? So lawyers don’t all. 

Garry Davis 

That’s correct. 

Scott Berry 

Follow the same process. 

Garry Davis 

Correct. 

Scott Berry 

Unfortunately, it’s it’s kind of a different experience based on. Who the individual attorney is? That’s correct. It’s not. That’s not probably what people want to hear, but that’s what they should expect, right? 

Garry Davis 

Well, we’re just people at the end of the day, we’re just people, right? And so, you know, I think most of us that are in this business are in this business cause we want to help people and we want to make an impact on the world and change the world and all that. You know, stuff that’s part of the reason why those of us in the business choose this path of law. There’s lots of ways to practice law. Our license allows us to practice any kind of law we want to. So why do people choose immigration and and part of the reason for that is because of the impact that it makes. And so I think the consultation is no less important to that to making that impact if that’s why you’re in this business, then that’s another opportunity to prove. That’s why you’re in this business, right, is to make that impact and to and to help people. 

Scott Berry 

So so is there. When someone, whether they get a free consultation or they pay a little bit for it, is there an expectation from the attorney that hey, at the end of this, you know, I expect you to hire me? 

Garry Davis 

It’s just that’s going to come down to, I mean, yeah, the answer is yes. If there’s an option, right? Because it’s not infrequent that an attorney is going to have a conversation with someone. Where as I mentioned earlier, there’s not an option for that person. OK. But if there is, but if there is, then yes, there is an expectation that they would choose to. 

Scott Berry 

That. 

Garry Davis 

Engage them. But it’s on the attorney in the consultation to help that potential customer or client understand the value that they’re bringing to that situation, right? I mean, the way that we do it in our office is if if there is an opportunity for us to provide a service, then we make sure that that person consulting with us leaves with a clear understanding of how to engage us should they choose to do that. Not that it’s high pressure sales, we’re not, you know, not letting them leave or let me get my manager. It’s nothing like that. It’s not, it’s not ********. Sales, OK, but we do want them to understand the steps that are involved to get us engaged to help them with that process, but then to also take a few minutes to help them understand the value that we’re bringing, the scope of the work that we’re doing. And you know how the fee is set up and how it’s paid? And can we do a? Payment plan on this service. What does that look like? And then how involved are we going to be at each stage of the process as we take them through the journey? Because these days, especially since COVID with backlog? And. And processing times being what they are, it really is a journey with your lawyer. In long time horizons, sometimes, and so, you know, you want to know exactly what it is they’re going to be doing to help you along the way, how to communicate with each other along the way and and just the scope of service, what it, what it is, you know, the level and scope, what it is we’re going to be doing to help that person. 

Scott Berry 

Through their immigration process, so one of the reasons why we wanted to ask you to talk about this. Is, you know, as a board certified immigration attorney that. Founded his own firm right that started out two people, 3 people. And now you have in the neighborhood of how many working in the office like 50 so 50. So you have one of the top firms in the country, right. I would say for immigration. Yeah. Yeah. And uhm. Can you even begin to estimate how many consultations that you’ve done over your career? Maybe you think about how many years? Yeah, maybe 10s of thousands, 10s of thousands. 

Garry Davis 

Over my career, no, not really. I mean as. 

Scott Berry 

A firm? 

Garry Davis 

It’s 10s of. 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

Garry Davis 

Of 10s of thousands. 

Scott Berry 

So Garry really knows what these things are like and he’s laying some truth on you so that you know what to expect. So that this could be successful for you, right? Because they’re they’re. Always successful, sometimes people they meet an attorney, they leave. They’re upset. Yeah, he didn’t listen. She didn’t listen. Whatever. So we want to give them the tools to go in and have some success because there’s even sometimes there are things they should bring. 

Garry Davis 

Correct. That’s right. That’s right. With them, right? Absolutely it. It’s incredibly helpful, especially if there’s some history. Right. If there’s, you know, relationships in the past that have ended like a divorce or something. If. There’s criminal history or encounters with immigration decisions, with immigration in the past, maybe a previous denial or something. The more of that kind of documentation, criminal record, deportation history, decision information from the government, anything that can help us to understand what the government is looking at as we present an application to them or that or that they’re going to need to be able to present the application that’s going to be really helpful to bring that along so that. 

Scott Berry 

We can assess it, but what if I’m embarrassed about something in the past? And so I don’t tell you about it, right? I don’t want you to know everything about my wife. 

Garry Davis 

Well, I mean I think of that as kind of like going to a doctor and saying that your head hurts when really at your foot doctor can’t help you with your hurt foot if you’re telling the doctor that your head hurts, right. It’s the same for. For us, we we have to know the history. It’s all confidential. I mean everything that you say. Stay in a consultation. Does not leave that room. That’s one of our ethics requirements as licensed attorneys, right, that we have to keep it confidential. 

Scott Berry 

Right. Yeah, that’s not a that’s not your law firm. This is Bar Association. 

Garry Davis 

No, that’s correct. That’s that’s very deep in the law, right. Any violation of confidence this could could cause someone to lose. Their license, right? 

Scott Berry 

I mean, in a way like the doctor that’s we all see that on TV. Patient doctor confidentiality you’ve got. 

Garry Davis 

Yeah. Right. Exactly right. Correct, that is correct. And so you want to be open and put it all on the table regardless of the the circumstance, because the truth is that even if you haven’t told anybody, there’s a really good chance the government knows these days. 

Scott Berry 

Yeah. Or it’s on, it’s on the. 

Garry Davis 

Internet somewhere. Who knows, right? I mean, somehow the government going to find it. So there’s no hiding from it and. And so it only hurts you to not let your lawyer know when you’ve got that issue. Because if we don’t know about it, we can’t help you try to address it. 

Scott Berry 

Deal with it. Yeah. If it pops up later. 

Garry Davis 

It’s a disaster if we know from the beginning, then we can help you come up with a plan to strategize. 

Scott Berry 

That’s. 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

Scott Berry 

Around it. But if we don’t know it, it could kill the whole thing. Absolutely. It’s it’s probably got a a large likelihood if it pops up too late in the process. 

Garry Davis 

You. Can. That is correct. The the chances of you outsmarting the government is very small. It’s just not going to happen, not. 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

Scott Berry 

These days, so a couple more questions. Sure. Is there anything tips that you could give a legal consumer who has scheduled a consultation? Mindset. Preparation. How did they? They’re done with the case. They’re going to have to make a decision as to whether or not to hire this. Attorney at the. Right. How do they know what to look for? How did they know how to the legal consumer? Like, how did they know if this was a good enough conversation for me to hire this person? What? You know, it’s not that easy. 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

Garry Davis 

Right. So a couple things that I would say is first of all. Consider the process that gets them into the office for the consultation. OK, I think that matters. How did that go? How did that go? And were were they efficient? Were they responsive? Those kinds of things? 

Scott Berry 

Right. They should be evaluating the firm from very first contact. 

Garry Davis 

Exactly from the very beginning. Exactly. Exactly. Now, a lot of immigration firms are small, and so there may not be a lot of, you know, bureaucracy around getting into the office. Some are larger like ours. And so there may be some, but assessing that first of all. But I think more importantly, it’s about assessing the attorney. How much are they willing to share about the how and the why of what their. Mandy. If you sit down and tell your lawyer, this is what I’m dealing with. What are my options? They say H1B. Here’s a contract. How would you like to proceed? OK, how about what is H1? How about how do I file an H1B and what’s required in the process? And are there other options that maybe I should consider? What are the pros and cons of this decision? What is the cost of this exactly? 

Scott Berry 

Is this my only option? What is this cost? 

Garry Davis 

Right. And so it it really I think comes down to how much are they willing to share about. The option that they’re recommending and why they think it’s the best option for. You. How well they answer the rest of your questions that you have. Wait, I read on the Internet about this other thing. How does that apply to me and how does that fit in? Is that something that I can pursue? How open and willing are they to have that conversation or even able? Because, you know, some of these visa types are not not all lawyers that do immigration do all the visa types because there’s just so many that there’s they can’t get. 

Speaker 

1. That’s true. Yeah.

Garry Davis 

Stop it on all of them, right? It’s just really hard to do that. And so it’s about the rapport that you have with the attorney, how educated you feel about your option and comfortable that this person is going to be able to get you through it. Success. Hopefully. And be there for you to get you through it successfully and that kind of thing, I think that’s how if I were in someone’s shoes, I would make the assessment. How well do I understand my options, the pros and cons and the process itself and how that lawyer is going to help me get there by the time I leave? And if the answer is, I’m still pretty confused. Probably not the. Right relationship, yeah. 

Speaker 

One more. 

Scott Berry 

One of the things that I think, and this I’ll ask you to respond to this last question, it’s a little bit personal, but I’ve noticed that you’ve been doing this for a really long time. You have an amazing firm, it’s gotten big and there’s a lot to manage. 

Garry Davis 

Sure. 

Scott Berry 

Right, but you have chosen to still work on cases, but more importantly. You still do consultations, right? And I would think. 

Garry Davis 

I do. Yeah, I do. 

Scott Berry 

There are a lot of firms whose founder has been successful in built to this size doesn’t have time for consultations anymore, but you make time for that. And would you close us with why you you choose to do? 

Speaker 

Right. 

Scott Berry 

That that’s a good question. 

Garry Davis 

There’s a couple of answers I can give you, and first of all, the attorneys that work for me and that I have a relationship with. I have tremendous respect for and they do a fantastic job. They’re they’re super intelligent, they learn quickly and I have nothing but respect for all of those guys. And so. You know, generally having a consultation with one of our associate attorneys. Is going to be really good, right? But. As I’ve gone down this path and and and taking this journey with immigration as my kind of career and it’s how I provide for. My. Family it’s it’s how you know we have an opportunity for for growth within our firm and for our attorneys and and other employees. 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

Garry Davis 

The touch point of the consultation, to me, it’s sort of. I guess what? What fills me up? Still a lot of my colleagues that have gotten to our size or bigger have decided to step away from consultations. I don’t fault them for that and maybe for business reasons that’s right for business reasons. Maybe it would be something that I should do at some point and who knows, maybe I will. 

Scott Berry 

The personal decision. 

Garry Davis 

But as of today, it’s something that still fills me up. It’s something that, you know, breaking down a scenario and giving people hope, seeing in their eyes when they say. But these other guys told me there was no option for me. And now you’re telling me that there is. Please help me understand. And you see the tears. You see the relief you. See the hope. I can’t get that by running a business. I get that opportunity to change people’s lives in that way and to find those opportunities and solutions for them in consultations. And so that’s why I choose to. 

Scott Berry 

To still do them. I’m so glad we had you in the day and I hope this was very helpful to our listeners and our viewers. We got you someone who is extremely experienced in this area. That has been doing them for many, many years, 10s of thousands of them and still doing them today because he loves it and has a passion for it. Garry, thanks for visiting with us. 

Garry Davis 

Of course, my pleasure. Thank. Grabbing. 

Speaker 

So. 

Scott Berry 

This podcast has been prepared for general information purposes only and is not legal advice. This information is not intended to create and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship.