Transcript:

Deron Smallcomb 

My name is Deron Smallcomb. I’m the lead attorney over at modern Law Group. We are an immigration law firm throughout the United States. We have offices in California, Texas, New York, Cancun, and we have about 7 attorneys that all specialize in immigration, about 20 paralegals or so. And our primary focus of practice is not only immigration, but specifically. 

Scott Berry 

And I’m Scott Berry, your host for today at Immigration Nation. We’re very excited to have Deron with us. He has got a ton of fantastic information. If we’re going to talk about asylum, Deron’s one of the very first people that we want to go to, his practice has evolved into probably 8085% asylum cases. There’s a lot of fascinating things going on across the globe right now that’s driving this, and we’ll talk about that a little bit, but all day, every day, it’s immigration for Deron and his firm and most of the time it’s asylum. Come join us today for a fantastic discussion. 

Scott Berry 

Hello. Thank you for joining us. Thanks, Deron. We’re glad to have you here. So would you mind just starting us off with a little bit of an introduction to you and your firm and we’re going to be talking about asylum today, a lot of different topics inside of asylum. Just introduce yourself if you. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Would sure my name is Deron Smallcomb. I’ve been in immigration for about 14 years. Although if you count the personal immigration aspect of things I did the first process for my wife about 16 or 17 years ago, and that actually led me into immigration a little bit later. So personally and professionally, I’ve been involved for some time. Modern Law Group has been around since 2009. Still, 14 years and we’ve been doing exclusively immigration during that time. Over the years, we have grown considerably and in addition to doing the family based immigration that we started off with, we now do a tremendous amount of asylum cases. 

Scott Berry 

Exactly, which is why we wanted you here. You were the first person that we thought of. There are some peculiar things going on in the world right now, and I know not everybody keeps up with what’s going on across the globe, but there’s a lot in the news. The IT seems like the demand for protection from the United States using asylum is, you know, at a high right now and there’s some things that are kind of causing that. And would you talk about that a little bit, what’s going on? In the world. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Sure, absolutely. A little over a year ago, the. Problems in the Eastern Europe started right the the Russian Ukraine conflict and that has displaced a lot of people. So either people fleeing from the war or fleeing from political persecution, many of them have come to the United States. So Scott, we have offices all over the United States and we have had for some time. However, we recently opened one up in Cancun. Mexico and the reason we did that, which is not as some people like to suggest, it’s a nice place for me to go visit. 

Speaker 

Hmm. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Bit on my normal rounds around the offices, which it is. 

Scott Berry 

Which it is, but that’s not the main purpose. 

Deron Smallcomb 

That is not the main purpose. The main purpose is is that most people fleeing persecution in another country cannot fly directly to the United States. Very few people have a visa, particularly from Eastern Europe and Russia. It’s been very difficult for many years to get a visitor visa to come to the United States. So say, since you cannot fly to the United States, you fly. In Mexico 1st and that first destination for almost everybody is Cancun. 

Scott Berry 

That’s crazy, right? So. So you opened up an office there just so that you could serve people better. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Correct. So we have Russian speaking paralegals in Cancun that are actually meeting the people that are coming from Russia, Ukraine and the surrounding countries to get them situated in Cancun to discuss their case, to see if there’s something that we could do to help them to claim asylum and then to prepare them for the journey that they will take to the border. Of the United States to begin that asylum process. 

Scott Berry 

So one of the things that’s really neat about your firm is you guys have a lot of English speaking clients and. And. A lot of. Russian speaking clients and some other languages as well, right. You guys serve clients with like four or five different languages? 

Deron Smallcomb 

Sure. Several, in fact. Yeah, we have several languages in-house covering all the major languages, quite frankly, of the world. But lately, for obvious reasons, Russia has been, and Russian language has been the primary language. Although Ukraine has its own language, everybody speaks Russian there as well. We do have Ukrainian speakers, but. 

Speaker 

Hmm. 

Deron Smallcomb 

I think people feel a lot more comfortable. They’ve given up everything. They’ve gone across the world most of the time with small children. Everything that they have with them is is literally and figuratively on their back and and then they come here to ask the for the protection of the United States, right to be able to greet them, make them feel comfortable. Kind of lead them through those steps so that they’re going to be successful in the process or at least have the best chance of success, is very welcoming for them and it does make things go a lot. Easier. 

Scott Berry 

So I think. Our listeners hear a lot about asylum, right and kind of there may even be some misunderstanding about what it is and who qualifies and stuff like that. So maybe we just start at the top, like when someone says there’s they’re seeking asylum or someone is seeking asylum, what what exactly are are they talking about? What are they asking for? 

Speaker 

MHM. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Sure. So asylum is a body of law that is in the immigration and Nationality Act that specifies who can seek the protection of the United States. OK. And there’s five categories, there’s race, religion. Nationality, political opinion and something they call a particular social group. The first four are pretty self-explanatory by what they are right? So particular social group is the one that you could fit some people in that may not go in the 1st 4 categories. For example a particular social group might be somebody that is LGB. That is, in a country where that is illegal, right? Where if they were to come out or be known, they could be killed or thrown in prison or something like that. That’s a. 

Speaker 

Deron Smallcomb 

Particular social. 

Scott Berry 

So you’re asking for protection based on that. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Correct. Maybe. Maybe a woman that has taken off her burqa and whatnot. In Iran that suffered persecution. OK, that’s not going to fit in the other 4 categories, but that is a particular social group where she is going to be persecuted if caught right. So. 

Speaker 

Scott Berry 

Deron Smallcomb 

Political opinion? Those are obvious as well right now, for example, you have a lot of people that. Are anti Putin? OK, so if they have demonstrated this publicly, they’re subject to a 15 year prison term, OK, under certain conditions. So if they have this public information out there about them, they could come and say, hey, look, if I go back, they’re going to put me in prison. For 15 years, merely because of my political opinion, and therefore they would fit under this umbrella of these five categories, that’s what asylum is. It’s also equally important to say what asylum is not, and I think this is where a lot of confusion comes out and a lot of people that aren’t real big fans of immigration kind of pick their battle because you have a lot of people that are economic migrants. OK, so things about in your country, you can’t get a good job, OK? That that’s really unfortunate and the world shouldn’t be like that. 

Speaker 

All right. 

Deron Smallcomb 

That’s not a reason for asylum. 

Scott Berry 

So there. A lot of that type of request coming from the southern border absolutely, absolutely. And they don’t know any better. Right, like. 

Deron Smallcomb 

No, they don’t. They see a better life and they see that other people have come across and and that the laws are sometimes enforced lackadaisically. And so it’s like, OK, I’m gonna give it a shot, you know? Or, you know, I work on in the out in the field and make, you know, $20 a week or whatever it is. And I get harassed by the local. Criminals. OK, well, you know, maybe the harassment of the local criminals if it’s tied to the police, which is tied to the government, then you have some sort of government involvement, maybe. Right. But if it’s just. 

Speaker 

Right. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Hey, I can’t really make enough to feed my family here because life’s tough and. 

Scott Berry 

I don’t know. It’s not gonna qualify. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Nicaragua, or whatever it may be, right, that’s not more than likely going to qualify so. 

Scott Berry 

So there is a certain. Set of qualifications that someone would have to meet in order to even apply. Most definitely. OK. 

Deron Smallcomb 

So I would take it as a matter of practice. The vast majority of calls that we have for people that are seeking asylum or at least exploring that option, we do not take as cases because, while we may sympathize with their situation, OK, our firm doesn’t take cases we don’t provide hope in exchange for money. OK, we will provide hope if there is a case that will fit. 

Scott Berry 

Ohh that’s an item. 

Speaker 

Right. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Within those categories that we think we could win right in the end or there’s a good chance of us winning in the end, but most people unfortunately don’t. Fit in that and there’s just not a lot of other immigration options in. 

Scott Berry 

The United States. So that’s really interesting. So we’ve got a case where people are applying right and requesting, but the majority of them don’t qualify legally, right. At what point should they reach out to an attorney to find out if they? 

Deron Smallcomb 

Do qualify? Well, I think it’s kind of best to do so. Early on, right. And you know, I recommend always if you’re gonna seek more than one person’s advice but find a reputable firm. OK, that’s not just interested in taking. Your money, they will hear your story and give you a real assessment as to whether you have a chance of success or not, right. And it’s best to do that before you sold your homes, sold your business, packed up your kids, flown to a foreign country and are sitting there. OK, I’m ready to go. You should probably speak to somebody about that process first. 

Scott Berry 

So even if they’re already outside of the country, there are ways for them to reach law firm owners like yourself, like you have WhatsApp and certain tools to where they could potentially reach out. And ask a couple of high level questions. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Correct. So again, we serve a lot of the Russian speaking market. I have four Russian speakers that have access to our digital connections, telegram, WhatsApp, whatever it may be or international lines. And that’s listed on our website. So people could call and say, hey, look, this is my situation, OK, could you help me out or not and again? Most of the people we say probably not. But I also think that’s a worthwhile service to provide before they up into their entire lives. It’s like, look, you’re seeking a better life. I get it. But at the same time. 

Speaker 

Oh gosh, yeah. 

Scott Berry 

It’s priceless. 

Deron Smallcomb 

You’re going to go sit here in a court system for years, probably get declined, and then you’re gonna have to go back with nothing. You. 

Scott Berry 

All right, good. So good point. What is that process like if if you think they have legal grounds for it, what how does it start? What’s the process? 

Deron Smallcomb 

Know. Sure. Like, OK, it’s a really good question. There’s there’s two processes. One of them is called affirmative. Phylum. That is, if you have a visa, say a visitor visa, let’s say you’re a student, OK? You came here from a country that’s been upended. OK, you’ve been here for four years, and you, you can’t go back because you’ve been here. You’ve been talking about the politics in your country. You’ve been posting on YouTube or Facebook, whatever it may be. And now there’s a penalty for that. Going home. OK, that person’s going to say, OK, I’m going to apply for asylum with USCIS, with Immigration Services, OK. And it’s a little bit more straightforward process. So they’re going to apply now if they win, that’s it. They get asylum. They’re on the process. They’re they’re on the path long term for a green card, citizenship. Everything OK if they get declined, then they’re referred to the courts. OK. The courts, the courts is where most people have their asylum process. All right, so. The examples we’ve used so far where somebody flies in New Mexico, for example in the Cancun and then comes to the US border asking for asylum, that is a court process. So they’re what they call defensive asylum. They didn’t have any permission to be here, but they came anyway to the border and said, please help me if you send me home, I’m going to die or go to prison. OK, so they’re. They’re going to start off with what they call a credible fear inner. View so. First, the officers going to say, who are you? Why are you here? OK, I’m. I’m John. I’m from this country. I’m here to claim asylum. OK, wait here now. Hours or days later, they’re gonna have an officer that’s going to ask them questions about their case. Specific questions. Why are you afraid to go home? What happened? Tell me everything and it’ll be a three hour interview. If they pass that credible for your interview, then they may have a court hearing. OK, now all. 

Speaker 

Local. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Depends where they’re gonna end up. So this is where it gets really complicated, Scott, because some people get detained, some people don’t. Alright, so if you’re detained, if you’re a single man coming to the border asking for asylum, you’re probably going to get detained. So they’re going to send you it to whatever facility in the country has capacity. Right now, it happens to be a lot of Louisiana. Sometimes it’s Colorado, sometimes it’s Washington, sometimes it’s California. It’s it’s all over the place. You just never know. So when you’re there, you’re in their court system while you’re detained. And those are tougher cases. We try really hard to get people out once we get them out. And let’s say they live in. 

Speaker 

Deron Smallcomb 

New York they’re cases and transferred to New York, so it’s local for them. All right, now let’s say a single woman shows up with two small kids. She’s not getting detained. It’s not gonna happen. They’re gonna let her out as as quickly as humanly possible. 

Scott Berry 

1. And she’ll find a place to stay for a couple of days. While.

Deron Smallcomb 

This is all happening correct? Well, they’ll. They’ll house them in very nicely for like a day or so or two. CBP will say OK. 

Speaker 

Correct. OK. 

Deron Smallcomb 

We just need to sort it out. We need to verify who you are. We’re gonna ask you a couple questions. Where are you going to go now? Most people have somewhere to go when they come here. They have a relative or a friend or a friend of a friend that they got a place to go. They’ll say. OK, where are you gonna go? OK, you’re gonna go to your friends house. What’s their address? What’s their phone number? OK. Have a nice day, right? Or they release them to an intermediary organization like Catholic Charities or Jewish Family Services. Some sort of NGO that will keep them for a couple of days until they have someplace permanent. So. They’ll then go to this, let’s say, friend’s house. All right, wherever that is is where their court case is going to. Happen. Alright, OK. The timeline of that though, Scott is. 

Scott Berry 

What really gets you, you have to know it’s going to be complicated and it’s not going to happen quickly. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Right, exactly what it is, man. It takes years. For some people. We have people that have crossed two years ago that still haven’t had their first court hearing. Though I have people that crossed 3 weeks ago. That have already. Had it, it’s a mess. There’s millions of people seeking asylum right now and the courts are so backed up it’s it’s preposterous, quite frankly. 

Scott Berry 

I mean, it seems it would be kind. Of. Crazy to to. I mean, can they even handle it themselves or or or? Or would they have to get an immigration attorney to help with asylum? 

Deron Smallcomb 

Well, if you look at the percentages, they’re definitely gonna be advantage by having an attorney. OK, the, the the decline rate or the denial rate is far higher. If you represent yourself now, there are certain factors that go into that. Oftentimes people don’t hire an attorney if they know their cases and that strong. Sometimes people get into asylum because they just have to be they got. Hot here, so they say. Oh, I’m gonna claim asylum now, right? Their case is weak. They know it. They’re not gonna hire an attorney. OK. The cases that we represent have a very high success rate for a couple of reasons. Number one, we know what we’re doing #2 we choose people that have cases that are winnable, right? I don’t feel good about taking people’s money unless we have a very strong chance of winning. So yeah, you can do it on your own if you have a real strong. 

Speaker 

1. Yeah.

Scott Berry 

Right. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Base like let’s say for. Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia are persecuted against pretty bad. OK, it’s illegal to practice that religion essentially. OK, if they come here and they could prove that their Jehovah’s Witnesses and have it all documented out and they’ve gone through the process and they know other people that have done it successfully and they get a nice judge. They could probably do it themselves, right? Their chances aren’t as high, but they’re already going in with a pretty high chance of success anyway, so it’s possible we handle a lot of these cases. We do it at a discount because we’ve done so many of them. The arguments, the same almost every time. OK other cases that are complex. 

Scott Berry 

OK, that’s good. 

Deron Smallcomb 

You should have counsel. 

Scott Berry 

Absolutely. So what happens if if someone wins? What does that even mean? And? 

Speaker 

MMM. 

Scott Berry 

You know, some people, I guess, could deny. What’s that like? What’s that process like? 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

Deron Smallcomb 

So the judge again, if we’re talking about defensive asylum, the judge is going to make a decision at the end of the process. Now, sometimes you can negotiate the decision with Homeland Security and just kind of take it out of the judges hands in a way, even though the judge must affirm it. But in almost all cases, the judge decides. All right, so the judge is going to decide to either grant your petition for asylum or deny, OK, if the petition for asylum is granted. That’s it. At that moment, you are now 100% legal. You’re able to work, and you’ve begun your life officially in the United States. You are protected. OK, now it’s not the last step. A year later, you can apply for a green card that gives you permanent residency. Five years after that, you can apply for citizenship so the process isn’t over, but the hard part. 

Scott Berry 

So you get temporary with an opportunity to get permanent down the. 

Speaker 

Yep. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Road, basically. Yeah. So you’re temporary. I mean, if you commit some major crime, they could always send you away or let’s say the conditions change in your country for. Example right and you committed a crime and it’s like, OK, well, now you’re safe there and you’re committing crimes in the US. Have a nice day. That doesn’t happen very often, but it’s possible. So a grant puts you on that path to citizenship. Multi year path, OK. And it protects your family too. Your spouse and any of your children that are under 21. 

Speaker 

OK, right. 

Scott Berry 

There we go. And with you. Yeah. That was one of the questions that I had. How does asylum affect like the whole family? So it is it would protect. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Everybody, if they’re here, if immediately if they’re here. Yeah. So spouses and children under 21 at the time of filing are protected. So if the. 

Scott Berry 

That’s with, that’s with you. 

Deron Smallcomb 

We call the lead, gets the grant of asylum that all the writers, which is the rest of family, gets it too. 

Scott Berry 

So summarize for us. Like how long this process tends to. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Take right, affirmative asylum. You’re here with a visa that the college student example should generally take less than a year, depending on where you’re at in the country. OK, assuming you win, OK, if you lose, it gets referred to court and then you’re like everybody else. Court, if you’re detained right, you’re that single guy that just came and you got put in detention. You’re probably going to look at about a six month process while in detention, maybe less. OK, if you were non detained. Right. You’ve been let out and you’re a free person while your court is pending anywhere from two to five years. Will take. 

Scott Berry 

1. So. If you have an attorney, there’s a lot of work that needs to be done over the course of two 3-4 or five years. So what could we tell people about what they might expect cost for asylum? You can’t speak for every law firm, but just kind of look at lawyers across the United States and give us some kind of ballpark range. What are we? To be. Talking about.

Deron Smallcomb 

So affirmative asylum, where it’s more of a paperwork push and no court, your typical firm will probably run you about 5 to 7000. OK, there’s gonna be some that are cheaper and there’s gonna be some that are more expensive, OK, the cheaper ones. Well, I mean, it’s like most things in life. You get what you pay for. You know, I’m sure there’s some good attorneys out there that are doing it. 

Scott Berry 

Yeah. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Very low cost, but not always, and some of the more expensive ones are just unnecessarily high, right? Like our firm, we’ve tried to get in that sweet spot. We tried to give the best possible representation. That’s our focus, but still make it affordable. Defense of asylum. OK, that’s one where you gonna be in court? That ones more because it requires multiple court appearances, right? You have things called master hearings where you’re presenting to the court what you intend to do, right? Not just words, but paperwork. So. OK, we’re gonna claim asylum. Oh, is that right? On what basis? And then you have to, you know, give your stack of paperwork that this, that’s this side to the court and they say, OK, they’ll look through it and say that’s acceptable for now, will allow you for the next year or two to submit more paperwork up until this date. But On this date, 2 years from now or whatever, it’s going to be, we’re going to have a hearing called the merits or an individual. To finalize it right, so you have two or three or more hearings for this process. These cases cost more, OK, so something like this, you’re looking somewhere usually in the 10 to $15,000 range, again same metrics as before. 

Speaker 

Scott Berry 

You know, does it change if, like if it’s the maybe the man that comes over first and then he brings his family later? 

Speaker 

Umm. 

Scott Berry 

Is that more work and more expense or is that all covered? Like what? What would? 

Deron Smallcomb 

The the forms that because not that doesn’t apply to everybody. What we’ll usually do is we’ll either guide that person to do those forms after because they’re pretty simple, you know, say OK, I’ve already been granted asylum. This is my wife. So it’s like, OK, here’s my paper from the judge. Here’s my marriage certificate. Here’s my kids birth certificates. And here’s the three page. 

Speaker 

Actually happened. OK. 

Scott Berry 

There’s a lot of the work sort of been done. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Form and that’s it, right. So we can either guide him through it or we’ll do it for some nominal fee. Our prices change Scott generally on the person, OK. So if it’s or the case, if it’s a complex case with let’s. Four or five children, a spouse, a husband or a spouse. Spouses excuse me, and we’re gonna have to do work permits for everybody and renew them. And the case is going to be more difficult and we’re moving it around the country and consolidating things together. It’s going to be a little bit more expensive case. 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

Scott Berry 

But you tend to know that at the beginning, right? Like if there were consultation, if they have some questions, then that stuff all gets uncovered during the consultation. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Yes. Absolutely. Correct. And then we quote a flat fee and we stick with it. So we don’t, we don’t do hourly with people. It’s like this is the cost. This is what you could expect. 

Speaker 

Deron Smallcomb 

It’s going to, let’s say be 12,000. You’re going to put 3000 to start and 1000 bucks a month or 500 bucks a month because it’s going to take years. Anyway, and so so people. 

Scott Berry 

Depending on who their attorney is, it might be flat fee or it might be hourly based. What is it most would you? 

Deron Smallcomb 

Get I think more people have gone to the flat fee metric rather than the the hourly because the hourly it’s very unpredictable. You don’t know what it’s going to be and nobody wants to get nickel and dimed. Yeah, right. So we don’t nickel and. 

Speaker 

Deron Smallcomb 

Time either. 

Scott Berry 

So flat fee might be the best. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Flat fees. Usually the way to go and so we determined that at the beginning, like I said, a complex case with a lot of participants and maybe more than one courtroom. We’re dealing with a little bit more expensive. We also do sliding scale with our firm and I’m sure other firms do it too. Again, maybe using the example of a a single mother with two young kids that has fled through terrible persecution. Right. I’m. I’m going to try to do that at the least cost that we can to help out. Certainly certainly. 

Scott Berry 

Depending on the case and what’s required, do you? Do you have any social media or website information that you’d like to to share here? You’re welcome to do that. You know, because people, they, they’re welcome to reach out to. 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

Scott Berry 

You. And ask questions and potentially even have a consultation. If they think asylum might be for them, we’ve had some other guests that come on, they can reach out to those people or or potentially. Whoever is in their local community. 

Deron Smallcomb 

Certainly we’re not the only reputable firm out there. I’d like to think that we’re kind of, you know, on the upper tier of doing things right or or or track record speaks for itself. We win virtually every case that we take for asylum. However, if you feel more comfortable working with somebody that’s just down the street from you, great or maybe you have a unique language that we don’t cover and you want to do that or maybe you got a recommendation from a friend. Another attorney. Find somebody that you feel comfortable with, right? That you feel is knowledgeable. Look at their online reviews, things like that. Try to see what you can find out about them and and just find good counsel that could help you through this process, because it’s a madding process, especially with the courts, you know, and it’s an uncertain process the the stress of being in limbo for years really weighs on people and you could see it age people literally not knowing. 

Scott Berry 

Yeah, absolutely. 

Deron Smallcomb 

What their future is going to be, not knowing what the future for their children might be. It’s a terrible feeling. 

Scott Berry 

Thank you, Deron. It’s certainly big in the news right now, and it’s something that, you know, maybe everybody doesn’t think about every day, but on our borders, it’s happening every day to a very large extent and it’s nice to be able to provide this information to people so that they have a better chance of telling early on whether or not they would qualify. So we’ll put your information along with this video so that if people wanted to reach out to you, they certainly could and we appreciate you coming and visiting and being on immigration. 

Deron Smallcomb 

All right. Thank you, Scott. Appreciate it. 

Scott Berry 

Thank you. Deron Small come with modern logo. This podcast has been prepared for general information purposes only and is not legal advice. This information is not intended to create and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship.